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The AEther
Caldari
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.03 19:17:00 -
[1]
I don't get it .... the Crow and the Drake pilot ... what were they supposed to do again? Go fly around 20+ jumps to buy two frigates and assemble all parts for them meanwhile hoping you'd stay in belt just to make it fair for you? 
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The AEther
Caldari
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.04 01:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: The AEther on 04/11/2009 01:51:26
 Originally by: Nihiliax
Originally by: The AEther
I don't get it .... the Crow and the Drake pilot ... what were they supposed to do again? Go fly around 20+ jumps to buy two frigates and assemble all parts for them meanwhile hoping you'd stay in belt just to make it fair for you?
No, you are missing the point entirely. That incident was used merely to illustrate the difference between how I approached gaming and how many other EVE players approach it. As someone who is now able to fly an Interceptor I feel a little cheap when I turn up in a belt and pop somebody in a T1 Frig by myself let alone call for a mate in a Battlecruiser to assist in the kill. The Crow was already attacking a foe that he vastly outclassed so why on Earth bring the Drake in?
The Drake pilot simply wanted to be on your killmail. Not to assist the Crow obviously. If you are blaming him for wanting to be on km you're not being realistic.
You play in lowsec and 0.0 for a while and very often you hear people complain about being ganked. Sometimes you get ganked, and sometimes your corp ends up being the gankers. And if you are observant enough you learn that it goes both ways. If your corporation has 20+ people online and you find a pair of pilots roaming about, what are you supposed to do? Tell the other 18 guys to log off? Tell them that they cannot play today because there are only two targets about? If you have an interceptor and read a T1 frigate in belt, are you supposed to let him be and warp off? If your Drake buddy is in fleet and you tell him you got an Incursus pointed, do you also tell him to keep away so you keep the loot an the killmail to yourself?
Originally by: Nihiliax
So again, to clarify, I am not complaining about being blobbed and ganked as much as I am asking how people feel when playing a PVP game in which blob and gank seems to be what passes for the bulk of the action?
I find it to be a direct result of pvp in EVE being costly, not staged, and non-consensual. It is a tradeoff that you either accept or ... well there are other games that have PVP besides EVE.
Then of course like one of the posters noted PVP is his way of making ISK. He does not take great risk because that is how he carebears pretty much.
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The AEther
Caldari
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.04 21:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: The AEther on 04/11/2009 21:18:16
Originally by: Zartanic
Well combat avoidance and high risk aversion seems to be a big feature of EVE too. That's due to the potentially high cost of losing a ship. While that is the case blobs and ganking will be the norm. Its hard for CCP to do anything about this without changing the game to something I do not think they intend (like arenas) But WH's, maybe the new sov changes and corps like RvB are challenging this mentality but its amazing how many are stuck in one type of PVP mindset.
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
There is some truth to what Zartanic says. Some do play explicitly for "tears". They find it amusing and even satisfying to see others in grief. The truth is that bullying in Eve is akin to me heading to the local kiddies' park to bully children and then laugh and entertain myself all the while chanting "It's just a park, you cry baby, this isn't real life. LULZ." If you find the "tears" and grief of others in any way satisfying then you have just as much issues as those you mock for taking the game seriously. Period.
So you lose in game because you haven't figured out how to fight back or simply refuse to fight back. Then you go ahead and claim the moral victory to make yourself feel better about your loss: "The evil pirate has killed me in game. This means that in real life he has maturity of a 5 y.o. or simply has some mental issues". This is simply brilliant! Why haven't pvpers thought of this before??! Any carebear robs my wallet now with your overpriced Zealots listed on market I will simply say that you are morally deficient. In childhood your parents must have deprived you of love and care (perhaps even food and clothing) and how you rob other people with your ridiculous prices. 
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The AEther
Caldari
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.04 21:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nihiliax
Why then would you even want to warp into the belt and get in on the kill. Surely, though a victory, it would be an incredibly hollow one? Wouldn't doing so make you feel worse about yourself rather than better?
There are many details of the story that are lacking, but knowing how devoid lowsec is of targets, especially targets sitting in asteroid belts, it takes very long time to find something you can kill. Imagine roaming around for hours finding nothing. You have to log off for the night soon but you feel just unsatisfied with your evening being completely pointless as you just got no kills. Finally your gang-mate reports that he has a point on a frig. You warp in and pray he does not finish it off with his Crow before your missiles manage to do any damage. Frigate goes boom, you feel slight satisfaction that finally you were able to see something explode. That feeling is very short lived as opponent wasn't worthy, so you dock and log off.
Not an exciting fight but better than completely nothing. Anybody who often picks one-sided fights like these is very likely to quit EVE because ultimately they are boring themselves out of the game. But in comparison to ending your evening logging off without getting to fire a single missile into anything after several hours of looking for targets, killing a T1 frig will make most players feel slightly better.
I personally would find this kind of pvp to be very boring. This is why you won't ever see me in lowsec in Drakes and Broadswords. But I can put myself in place of the people who go for such an occasional gank, see their point of view, feel their frustration, and sympathize to an extent.
Originally by: Nihiliax
Wanting to get in on the kill in this situation is, I guess, what is known in EVE as "killmail whoring" but in the strategy games I have played before such behaviour was referred to as "stats-padding". I am curious as to why it is both prevalent and acceptable in EVE?
It is acceptable in EVE because often your pvp competence is judged by your killboard record. Some pilots also derive fun competing with one another on killboard points and amount of kills. It makes them feel good to have their portrait displayed at the top of KB stat tables. Also it matters for their corporation. Activity and pvp prowess of corporations also get judged by their KBs. Potential recruits would typically ask for KB link and many would only look at the kill/death ratio, not carefully inspect 30-40 most recent killmails for quality of fights. Any kill however meaningless will improve your ratio and thus make your corporation seem more active and better at pvp to those who do not look carefully.
Originally by: Nihiliax
Couldn't the Drake and Crow pilot both jump in T1 Frigs and take it in turns to kill each other repeatedly to make their killboard scores goes up?
Low sec market is very poor. Like I have stated it would have probably taken them over 20 jumps total to assemble T1 frigates with all the parts. It is highly unlikely that they already had some ready in system just for this encounter. 20 jumps is 20 minutes. By that time you could have been gone, so they engaged you when they had a good chance of catching you.
Originally by: Nihiliax
.. observing that in order to experience PVP in EVE I find myself having to push the "Increase my score by one" button frequently which leaves me feeling like I haven't really achieved much in a game that on the surface appears to be quite complex.
You don't have to do it. Just because some people killmail ***** does not mean that you have to play by their rules. Take up fights that are more challenging. Ask people for 1v1s. Be unpredictable and aggressive - they are much less likely to assemble a blob to go after you if you strike first and don't give them time to assemble one. Note who the blobbers are in your home area and who gives you good fights and don't play with the blobbers.
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The AEther
Caldari
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.04 22:01:00 -
[5]
Edited by: The AEther on 04/11/2009 22:01:37
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Wow, dude. You went on a tangent there. .
congratulations on your new-found telepathic abilities - this is exactly what I think every time I see yet another carebear accusing pvpers of being immoral or deficient persons irl
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